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Ep. 73: Super Speed Slugger Mike Napoleon | A Baseball Podcast

Geoff Rottmayer March 16, 2020 12


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Super Speed Slugger Mike Napoleon

Welcome to The Baseball Awakening Podcast, where we dive into the raw, unfiltered, unsexy side of player development

Guest Bio:

Mike Napoleon, Co-Founder of Super Speed Slugger

Summary:

On this episode, Host Geoff Rottmayer sits down with Mike Napoleon, Co-Founder of Super Speed Slugger 

Show Notes: In this conversation, Mike talks about:

  • His background in baseball
  • What Super Speed Slugger Is
  • The Idea behind under load and overload training
  • Better practice of overload training than swinging a heavier element. 
  • How it improves mechanics
  • How it improve mechanics data collection points. 
  • and much more.

Website: www.baseballawakening.com

Facebook: Baseball Awakening Podcast

Twitter: Baseball Awakening Podcast

Instagram: The Baseball Awakening Podcast

Email Address: geoff@baseballawakening.com

Intro
Welcome to another episode of the baseball awakening podcast where we dive into the raw, unfiltered unsexy side of player development. Get ready for some knowledge bombs with your host Geoff Rottmayer

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Welcome to The Baseball Awakening Podcast, I am Geoff Rottmayer and today we’re sitting down with the co founder of superspeed slugger Mike Napoleon Mike, how are you sir? I’m doing great. How are you? I’m doing great Mike. I appreciate you coming on and sharing with our listeners. Just so everybody knows you are the co founder of superspeed slugger. So very curious to hear a little bit muted a the why don’t we just kind of start with you know, a little bit about who you are and maybe your background and then and then how you got into superspeed slugger.

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, I’m actually a golf coach by trade. So don’t hold that against me. But um, we, you know, so we actually owned a pretty high performance Golf Academy business back in Chicago for about 10 years. During that time, you know, we were a business where we were, you know, helping people with their golf game to kind of optimize and get better and have really efficient training programs, both on the coaching side, the fitness, side rehabilitation, all of that. That was a really cool environment to be in because we had all the great technology like your 3d motion capture systems, ground reaction force systems, launch monitors, all this stuff that for our worlds in golf is now become very mainstream, and I would say definitely is becoming much more popular in the baseball community in the last couple years. So during that time, I met a baseball coach who was running a baseball Academy of his own in Chicago as well ninja Stone, he actually now also consultant coaches for the the Chicago Cubs. But one of the great things was happening there is he was actually sending his baseball players and this is back in like 2010, sending his baseball players in to go through 3d motion capture analysis and physical screening, the number of those different things that we did with all of our golf clients, he was sending his baseball players in to have those same things done at our facility. And then we were sending back reports and things back and forth to, to Justin, for him to be able to more closely, coaches players. One of the types of training that we kind of came across during this entire process was something called overload under load trading, which I mean in the baseball world, I think has been something that’s been done for a significant amount of time in the golf world It never had. So we looked into that started doing a lot of research on what was actually happening with players and how they were gaining speed with that sort of training. We actually changed the name of it in the golf world to something we call overspeed training now, which we do find to be a little more descriptive of the actual science of it. But yes, so then we launched a golf system called superspeed golf that help golfers hit the ball further. And then about two years after that, we started developing our baseball products for hitting that help help players increase bat speed. And that’s kind of how superspeed slugger came about.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Very cool. So So how did you can you kind of talk about the process of how you came up with the weight and what you found there in terms of with the data that you got to be able to populate?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, absolutely. So what we found was that in general, traditional overload under load training was focusing far too much on the heavy side of the training. We found much better results with our players both on the golf side and you know, the studies we’ve done in baseball now, where the real piece of the importance is that we’re making the player move faster than they normally do during the motions. They already know how to make. So like, We’re not trying to change the way a player hits a baseball or makes that swing, we’re just trying to make their body move faster during that motion. So the side of it that’s really important is you have to use the lighter weight implements in order to make the body move faster than what happens in just a handful of swings, there’s that your brain starts to remember and expect that faster motion to come from the body. So then you can actually increase weight back, and you can see big jumps in basketball. So that was kind of one of the big ones when we found that most of the stuff out there was using like, you know, 20 30% heavier bats in this training. We found that to be almost negate most of the gains that a lot of these players were getting during the training. So putting a system out there where we didn’t, where we had that much lighter weight type motion and ours are about 20% lighter ones 10% lighter than one’s only about 5% heavier than the players game back but we found that to be kind of the optimal breakdown of the weights with what we were looking at for this training. And once we started putting that into play, we started seeing just huge gains in bat speed right away. I think most adjustment studies that he’s done have averaged between six and a half and 7% increase bat speed and you know, six weeks of training, which is pretty wild. Steve Johnson is another partner of ours that also works with the on base you team, that we’ve been partnered with forever with TPI of the golf side. He has a huge baseball Academy in Alexandria, Virginia. He did a study and also added in some other like prep work to it, it was actually getting 910 percent gains in bat speed and then like a two month period, so some pretty big stuff is available on this stuff for players. I mean, there’s really no downside baseball, the increase in bat speed,

Geoffrey Rottmayer
right. So I just just for the people that are listening, you mentioned that, Steve, we’re doing some prep work here. Talk a little bit about what prep work are people who are listening understands.

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, so I look at the way we do this training is kind of like good, better and best, right? Like what we have on the website right now if you go to superspeed slugger COMM And you buy our system, and then you go through the training protocols that are on there, you can do that by itself. And we’ll see an average of about a five to 6% gain in bass speed in six weeks. And that that process that we propose to everyone out there, regardless of your situation, involves going through a warm up process and then going through the actual speed training protocols that we built. What Steve did, which was really cool, he added in a step in the middle there, so he had to play a warm up. Then he did a preparation phase that was something we call overload training. So this is gonna be like some lifting heavy weights like ballistic type, gym type work, in order to just activate more motor units in the body get more muscle activation going into the muscle Ideally after that had the players go through the overspeed training speed training portion, and that that middle step, at least in theory, we don’t have enough research on it to prove it yet. But we’re theorizing that that adding that little overload, kind of heavy workout type piece right before the overspeed training, if done in the right way could even optimize the results for

Geoffrey Rottmayer
very cool. So the the protocol that you came up with, how did you guys like? What was the process that went into figuring out which would be the most efficient drills to do?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, so lots of different things there. Obviously, most of the research on that stuff came in on our on our adult products, because those came out first. Sure. But, you know, we found we had we knew there were a few things that were really acting really well in this thing. So we’re looking at what are the underlying pieces that really do affect speed and power and every single motion that happens, you know, because we know that there’s neurological component of just getting the brain to act. Expect a faster response is definitely something that’s going to help everybody. But the we found that we created this model we call the speed pyramid, which basically ties together, you know how the player interacts with the ground. So that’s all of your ground reaction, force pressure, how they push and how they how the galley interact with the ground, right? Then we look at rotational sequencing and kinematics. So this is basically the way that players sequences, you know, which segments of their body move first, how do we see the biomechanics are efficient, and then how that ties into their hands and arms and the fat and how they’re actually applying that speed to the to the actual swing to the ball, right? So that speed pyramid model is something that we looked at, in our protocols to find ways to put drills in that would work on all of those areas, without really ever telling the player that we’re working on any of that really complex stuff, right. So, you know, great sequencing drills like our step and hit kind of drills. We also do some more advanced, like biomechanics drills, like the stuff we do with kneeling swings. You know, I think the other big piece is that we have non dominant training in every one of our protocols. So players swing both on their dominant side and non dominant side. That’s a huge thing that’s been proven to show big results in your sequencing games. But again, you know, from a coaching standpoint, I don’t want to have to tell players all this complicated stuff about what they’re doing. I just want to say Do this drill. It’s really simple. And then knowing that there’s a lot of results that can come from that from just going through that process.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Very cool. So can you talk a little bit about the you said that the non dominant side training showed a huge gain in the the kinematics in the in the sequence? Can you talk a little bit about that a little bit?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, absolutely. So there’s two really, I would say, well, there’s more than two but two really important areas that we look at in the kinematic sequence of a player as far as different rectly relating to that players speed and power output. You know, the first one is going to be as the segment’s transition, how fast they can, they can transition, what type of acceleration numbers we see when those things when those different segments come out of the gate. So that’s number one. The second one, though, that sometimes even more important, is how aggressively those segments can stabilize or decelerate in the volume mechanics turn, but basically, it’s like, we want to see a fast acceleration of the segments, then we want to see like an immediate stop, like, stabilization as that as that rotational speed goes up the chain to the next segments. Well, one of the things we find with non dominant training is getting the opposite side of the body, getting the muscles activated, getting them a little bit more coordinated, tends to help with that stability chain that stabilization chain in a major way. And you you actually know you’ve seen this happen without even knowing about it before, like if you go through the stats and the baby For a long time spent with switch hitters, especially forever, like, it always seems that when you look at those numbers, and there’s an exception I’m sure we can find, in general, like switch hitters tend to be more powerful hit for more power on their non dominant side and tend to have slightly higher average hitting on their dominant side. And it just has to do with that stability chain of those muscles when they’re swinging on their non dominant side. They’re essentially landing into the dominant side of their body. So that gives them a slight biomechanical advantage when it comes to power.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Very cool. So let’s, let’s talk about the younger kid that that the younger kid that don’t know how to move well or don’t know where they’re supposed to generate power from, how would they utilize a program like this? You know, there’s certain age that you guys recommend with, you know, that we’re not further creating more issues with their swing.

Mike Napoleon
Absolutely. So Our youngest set that we have is our, what we call our youth set. And that’s going to be targeted kind of like your you 11 you 12 players, okay? Honestly, like, I’d recommend people start doing this even sooner than that. And we’re looking at development of creating stuff for even younger kids because honestly, like when kids are young, like five to seven is about the, that’s kind of like the gold time in their life to be able to develop like high levels potential for speed and power. I think on a coaching side, sometimes we get some things backwards, you know, sometimes we look at like over coaching skill and mechanics in the younger ages, when really like, if you look at professional athletes, regardless of sport, like the ones that train speed and that stuff early are the ones that tend to become elite athletes later. But you know, to kind of go straight to your comment there about like, Mechanical efficiency if you will, like, you know, improving the mechanics of the motion, but I would look at it this way. You can backwards engineer working on efficiency without ever talking about style or or, you know, the exact specific mechanics. So, if a player is able to increase how fast they’re making the bat move by, let’s say, five, six miles an hour, something had to improve in the efficiency of their body motion in order to make that happen. Like it’s impossible to actually increase that overall mechanical efficiency of the motion and actually get, I would say, worse with mechanics. Now, granted, that does, you know, taking me I still think it’s very important that players are still working on mechanics while they’re doing speed training. But as far as it being something that can directly hurt somebody’s ability. We do not see that at all. We see positive Improvements in the overall efficiency of their motion.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Yeah, so so whenever they’re going through the the program, we’re telling them to just swing as hard as you can, right? Not even really worried about the swing. Really, we’re to town that, hey, you’re swinging the bat. It’s hard. You can.

Mike Napoleon
I mean, honestly, as a coach, I tell players all the time not to worry about exactly how they’re doing emotion, I think that gets in people’s way more than it helps. I think when you can look at that end result goal, right? Like, let’s take it take a real example. Like you have a player coming in, let’s say there is a younger player that bad speeds 45 miles an hour, right? So now if you start to coach that player and try to get them into four or five different positions during that, you know, every time you’re going to see that 45 miles an hour probably go down. However, if you give them a little radar device and you say look, what I want to see is how can you make that speed go up to 50 miles Our what ends up happening there is let’s say one of them, they tense up, they swing really hard, and it goes down to 40. Well, they just learned that, that feeling that tensing up in that that swinging hard feeling made their speed go down. Whereas the next one where they kind of just happen to pause or discover tapper happened upon her discovery, that sort of feel of like increasing sequencing, maybe it was that they weren’t leading with their lower body Ray, or maybe it was a ground reaction thing, they weren’t pushing as well in the in the like loading phase in the in the moving forward, whatever it might have been, they’re going to discover this field and also that number went up to 48. Now they just learned that that field increases the speed of their swing. So that’s kind of where I’m going with that, like that discovery learning aspect, especially for kids is far more effective from a coaching strategy than standing in there and putting them into 15 different positions and basically making them so mad. They want to hit you with the best

Geoffrey Rottmayer
right So, so having that radar, having the radar there, it’s gonna be kind of almost as important as anything else. So they can see that and

Mike Napoleon
I think it’s an incredibly good feedback tool, I really do think it’s something that makes that makes a big positive impact on the training. However, you can do it without that too. Like, you can also, you know, listen to the sound the bass making, like, you know, the, the whoosh sound that bats making. When you make the when you make the training, you know, you can make that louder, you know, so there are other ways to do it without the radar. But yes, it does make a big difference. I would, I would say, especially with the kids.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Yeah. And so you know, that for the people that are listening, you know, that we’re talking about developing like, like speed and power. We’re not talking about the skill stuff for the crowd that says, You got to go slow before you go fast. What would you say to that crowd?

Mike Napoleon
I’d say it’s just old theory that is not proven and doesn’t work. work. I mean, you really just look, let’s put it this way, if it was coaching wise, just from a motor learning standpoint, from a how people learn standpoint, it’s fine to show somebody in a slow kind of environment when the player doesn’t even understand what they’re trying to do. But, you know, and this is probably the most research thing in academic literature, motor learning of anything that’s out there. And what research shows there is that as soon as the player understands the concept has a general feel of what it feels like to make a successful rep have a drill, they should be doing at they should be doing that at game speed to maximize the learning process. Right. So I think your concept of go slow before fast, may have some validity in the some point of if somebody doesn’t have any knowledge or feel of what they’re trying to do to ensure they need to learn what it feels like to accomplish the task. But as soon as they know that Then you got to get them into game speed as fast as possible to maximize their learning.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Right? So the the you guys have a particular design for the the superspeed slugger bats? Is there specific reason why it’s designed the way that you the way y’all came up with it.

Mike Napoleon
The primary one is that we don’t want people to hit baseballs during the training. So we tried to make it look a little like, you know, something that you’d want to hit a baseball bat with as possible even though and I won’t name names, but I mean, I can’t tell you how many calls I’ve gotten like man, you know, this thing’s got bent out of shape. They’re like, well, what? What were you doing? Well, we had it in a cage for like a half hour. Did you guys watch the video? So you’re using it properly is obviously important. But yes, we’ve actually done studies on it. So we find that we get much bigger speed games by doing the speed training all with dry swings and then going back in the cage and applying it to actually hitting baseballs after If we do it while we’re trying to hit a baseball, it makes sense when you think about it, you know, if you have baseball flying at you at 80 miles an hour, like your goal is to hit the baseball, it’s very hard, especially for a higher level player to do something significantly different in that moment when they’re also trying to hit the baseball. So think about it as a separate module, make them do something different, faster, more efficient, then apply that to actually hitting the baseball.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Make sense? So How often would you recommend someone doing the the protocol with it everyday thing? or How long do they maybe take?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, we’ve found off the most three days a week with a full day off in between that, that we’ve actually find that people do it every day. They have a harder time maintaining maximum intensity on every rep in the drill, so they actually get a little bit less efficiency in the training. And that’s the big thing is they’re not long training protocols, like the training protocols take like five to eight minutes to go through. It’s just five to eight minutes of pretty intense activity. So it is tiring in that amount of time. But the goal is really to opt in to max out every one of those reps that you do that I believe are level one protocol, like 39 swings with about half of them being on the non dominant side.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
So how many different levels are there?

Mike Napoleon
We have three levels on the baseball side. We are in development right now I’m working on a couple others on the golf side, we actually have five levels now. Again, that products been out for a little bit longer. The Baseball ones we would release, the more it’s just the baseball stuff with that bass being heavier, actually tend to be a little bit more taxing on the players then then the golf clubs that are a little bit lighter. So we found that we can’t get quite to the same level of volume and still maintain the training efficiency. So those three protocols though, like can really take somebody through years worth of this training. It’s not like you need a lot of different things to go in there. You know, the level one kind of gets people going with it a level two adds in the kneeling swings, which we think are a major improvement for a lot of biomechanics stuff. And then the level three kind of puts all that together with a little bit more volume. But yeah, I mean, we have players have been doing this for a couple years now they’re, they’re doing fine. They’re playing tax after doing the level three protocol.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Yeah, Mike, you know, with the overload training being a trendy thing right now in the baseball world. Can you go a little bit deeper and you talked about this a little bit, but can you go a little bit deeper into your guys’s finding on the heavier side, not producing the the result that you guys were wanting or shooting for?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, so I think that’s been the kind of tradition in baseball especially is that, you know, I’m going to swing something heavy and it’s going to make my bat feel lighter. And then I’m going to be able to move that faster. Well, I mean, we’ve just seen this not work in many different studies. Now. In fact, we did one bro. Five years ago are friends at TPI did some collegian players minor league players, they had to actually do a warm up with like a doughnut it was adding 20% or so to the way to the bat, Sam go through a warm up with only like 10 swings with that. And they actually found that on average players lost around 25 to 30% of their normal bat speed right after then it took them to the fifth swing after doing that to get back to their normal bat speed. So that seemed kind of wild to me when I heard that one. But it makes sense when you think about the I would say how your brain is controlling your body, right, like our overspeed training products, we’re moving the body faster, allowing your brain to sort of remember that your body is reacting faster and increasing speed. Well, the opposite side of that spectrum works too. If you swing something a lot heavier, your brain starts to remember this slower sequence slower motion of your body because there’s more resistance. You can’t move it as fast. So Let’s say your bat speed goes down by 10% or something with that heavier weighted bat. When you go back to your game bat your brains now remembering and expecting that slower reaction speed not the faster one. Now, there’s like I was mentioning with Steve study there is there is something to be said, For overload training, which is going to use heavier weighted objects and increase motor activation for the player motor unit activation. However, what we’re finding is that it’s better to do that type of training away from the specific motor program of the swing. So we don’t get that neurological effect of expecting this slower response. Do the speed the the weight training the heavier way to training with more explosive movements, you know, do it with a medicine ball or do it you know, with squat jumps or whatever it might be that you’re going to do to do that type of activation training is then do the lightweight overspeed training motor programs specific to the swing. So again, I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to use heavier weights. I just would never want someone to do that in the actual motion they’re making during the during practice for like swinging and trying to hit a baseball I’d rather do that away from that you know, in the gym, activate all the motor into the body and then neurologically get the brain to remember this faster speed that they can do doing the lightweight stuff in the train.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Right That makes sense. So what about a guy that’s coming back from an injury? What what’s that conversation like for a program like this?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, I we actually have used our especially our golf product we’ve used a lot in the rehabilitation process for players is kind of how that that would work. So the point in the swing when you’re when you’re when you try it when you’re in the cage, at the point where the most like residual force goes through your body and can cause the most amount of damage is actually when you hit the ball. So it’s that point where you make contact, right? That’s where if things are going to get injured or broken, that’s where it’s going to happen, because that’s where the most force is going through your body. So because we don’t actually hit balls with our training, once a player would be medically cleared, so I go once the one thing once the doctors know that by making the motion, they’re no longer going to reinjure whatever the problem was, there’s usually like kind of a hump there of just like the player being scared, they’re gonna hurt themselves, we got to get over to be able to get them back to their normal a game speed. So we’ve found that putting our training in at that point where there is no impact. So it’s much less taxing on the body in that regard, than actually being in the cage hitting baseballs. It’s a great point where you can start to get that player used to making that getting some speed and power back going through their body with a little bit in a little safer environment before they would actually be back in applying it. really hitting baseballs.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Makes makes sense. So So Mike, if you were me interviewing yourself, what would you have asked or even brought up that I didn’t that didn’t bring up brass?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, I think I think we covered most of all the really big points there. Yeah, the only thing I would say is that I think it’s important to look at this type of training speed training in general, as a part of an overall program. Like we’re not trying to claim that by just picking up our you know, superspeed slugger system, it’s gonna make everything in the world of your baseball performance better, you know, but it’s one aspect that can significantly affect your speed and power performance. But putting that into an overall training program where you’re working on the physical side of, you know, stability, strength, power, all those aspects of the gym, and then also having a good you know, set for working on you know, the different skill elements that are important to, to the sport. I think putting it in in that overall program is a Really important factor to optimize what you’re going to get out

Geoffrey Rottmayer
of all of this very cool it’s I want one other question I had to thought about what about what people see like a resolve in now do you see the results and like the radar but will they see the difference in like their their blast motion or their their diamond fanatics or whatever whatever sensors they have.

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, absolutely i mean whatever you’re swinging if it measures how fast that that’s moving in a sea change.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Yeah, and then and obviously the the caveat numbers are all gonna look better as well. rotational

Mike Napoleon
absolutely like a vest you’re gonna see on average probably 15 to 20% increased rotational velocity and like the pelvis torso usually, hand rotational velocity usually goes up by about six to 8%

Geoffrey Rottmayer
and then with everything else going up the active be more likely go up as well.

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, so the exit below is going to go up. Now granted, that still means that players making solid contact with far so you know There are we, we talked about bat speed. I know that’s not as much of a common term as exit velocity just because it takes some variables out, right? Like, I know I can help somebody increase the bat speed. Now the skill is still making sure they hit the center of the barrel every time. We don’t see it to be a huge issue for players. But obviously, if they don’t, you couldn’t guarantee that it was going to increase the exit velocity.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Yeah, so with all the data that you guys have captured over the years, both on the golf and the baseball side, from from a data from a data point of view, how similar are the movements?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, I mean, honestly, they’re extremely similar from a biomechanics standpoint, as far as exactly how speed and energy or create are being created and transferring throughout the player’s body. I would say that it’s extremely similar. Obviously, from a skill standpoint, there are differences mechanically, there are a handful of differences that are extremely important mainly as a result of the fact that you know, baseballs flying in sky high versus like, you know, golf ball being sitting on the ground. So that does change some things about, you know, posture angles and the, you know, plane of the swing and all those sorts of aspects. But, you know, in a very raw sense, the motions are extremely similar biomechanically, as far as how players create power. One of the reasons you see, you know, a lot of, you know, if you got a power hitter in baseball, they could probably hit a golf ball pretty far too.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Very cool. Well, Mike, if people want to learn more, what’s the website and what the process to getting started?

Mike Napoleon
Yeah, absolutely. superspeed slugger comm just go on there, all of the training is actually open and free to the public. So just go ahead and look at all the training videos. There’s a bunch more information up there from a lot of industry experts about how all the science works. Check that out and then you know, all you need to do the trick. Is the product so you just get the product and you start doing the training as we have instructed on the website. There’s also tons of information on our super speed golf website so that’s super speed golf comm we probably have even more interviews, podcasts, radio shows everything else you can imagine there if you want to learn more about the science on the doll side, we actually actually have tennis products now to superspeed tennis comm so you know obviously we’re kind of involved in helping people in all different sports get get faster, but yeah, I mean baseball specific superspeed slugger calm.

Geoffrey Rottmayer
Alright. Well, very good. Mike. I think we covered a lotof cool stuff you got there looks like

Mike Napoleon
yeah, thanks a lot for having me on. You know, if there’s anything else we can do in the future, please let us know. We always love spreading the word on helping people hit the ball further. All right, man. I appreciate it.

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Geoff Rottmayer

Geoff Rottmayer is the owner of Athletic Mission Baseball Academy, a training facility in Tulsa Oklahoma. Geoff also host The Baseball Awakening Podcast, which was developed to provide content to the baseball community straight from the source. In addition that that, Geoff, is helping coaches and professional start their own podcast and find their own voice.

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